Ears and Tail - how to help

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Post  beatrice on Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:34 pm

When you have a puppies try to tape a tail, and then you see how they can move a tail and you see the effect.

Smile
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Post  Alberto on Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:17 pm

beatrice wrote:

...when I say " everybody does it" .. I thought on ears ... many breeders gluing the ears ( look the link what I post), but no one will say ...
I also say that I seen that in one famous schnauzer kennel in CZ, so if the breeder who breed the schnauzer 20 years to that, and he tells me that it has the effect, why would I not try?


I know lot of breeders glue the ears of their puppies, but I was talking specifically about taping tails...to be honest I never heard about that and I think they are two significantly different things. A puppy can get used to glued ears in just some minutes, but I bet it's different with a completely bended tail.

beatrice wrote:

You also say that is "uneless pain" ...
You have forgotten that until a few years we cut the tails and ears ... that is not a painful for the puppy ...and after the cut we glue the ears to stand upright for several months... am I right?


Yes I remember that; I docked tails once in the past (I never cropped ears) but I remember that 6-days old babies cried half a day after tail docking, I guess that they felt pain.

beatrice wrote:

Do you ever see the puppy with the taping tail?
First one, that tape what is on the puppy tail, is the paper tape ... so skin can "breathe" , second - puppy lives and play whit the tape tail as any normal puppy... so don't worry puppy has a opportunity to express itself completely with tail movement as you say in a very important period.


No I didn't - but from your words a question comes to my head: if the paper bendage is so flexible that the pup can move his tail freely and doesn't force the tail in a certain position, what's the real effect of it?

beatrice wrote:

Each breeder has own opinion and experience, if he is split experiences with us, we will decide whether to accept or not his experience.

Smile


Yes I am agree, I just wanted to express my opinion... I didn't have any intention to criticize your breeding job; I just expressed my doubt about this tail taping... Nothing personal! Smile
Alberto
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Post  Jo on Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:24 pm

beatrice wrote:When you have a puppies try to tape a tail, and then you see how they can move a tail and you see the effect.

Smile

I've seen puppies tails change anyway, without any taping. I've seen tails on pups I have homed at 8 weeks that were more over the back, when that pup returns for grooming the tails is standing up. the owners haven't done anything to change the tail. I have seen the same happen with dogs I have kept back also.

I just want to find out why it would work. How is it changing the internal structure of the tail to make it change its natural shape?
Jo
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Post  beatrice on Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:39 pm

When I tape a tail , I do that with a paper tape ... so puppy can move a tail, swing with him, but it can not bow him, he is always upright.
When I tape a tail pup get used to it may be 10 minits, and after that he plays as any normal puppy.

You also asked why it works? - may be becouse bones in the tail are so soft ( like a cartilage) and they are not formed.

Now you are may be a little sceptical about it, but if you try, you don't have what to lose.

I just write my experience with the tapeing a tail ... first time when I do that I was doubt ... but after two weeks when I remove a tape I saw a progress.

Cool
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Post  FiJu on Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:33 pm

it´s a very interesting topic....
so can know everyone who he can´t used the studdog or buy a puppy from this kennel
what will be the next topic...wich colour do you used for the coat..... Sad

i don´t know..i think a breeder can select puppies for breed and show.. or as pet...

sorry but thats not good for our breed...my opinion Evil or Very Mad
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Post  beatrice on Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:18 am

FiJu wrote:it´s a very interesting topic....
so can know everyone who he can´t used the studdog or buy a puppy from this kennel
what will be the next topic...wich colour do you used for the coat.....

i don´t know..i think a breeder can select puppies for breed and show.. or as pet...

sorry but thats not good for our breed...my opinion


Do you know that this work ( tapeing tail) do one of the famous CZ kennel ...breeder who have 7,8 litters in one years ... and many breeders buy puppies from them ... but no one says ... I am the first to publicly write about tapeing tail ...


look at link ... this is not my puppies ... this kennel is not kennel from CZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31z17Tu3MLA&feature=fvw


I breed only 4 litters, I and I am not able to know how do some "tape" if someone did'n show me.
So I did not invent that.

I write again ... everything is a matter of choice... whether you will tape a tail or ears.
beatrice
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Post  Horoscope on Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:19 pm

Ears and Tail - how to help - Page 2 DSC03074
About this tape is Beatrice talking about...
Ears and Tail - how to help - Page 2 Galeria14
On this picture you can see how it works (it's not my dog)
Horoscope
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Post  MsBritmor on Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:03 am

Here this tape is called "masking tape". It is often used when painting around windows, door frames, etc.

_________________
Karen Brittan, Minnesota, USA
Britmor Miniature Schnauzers

Ears and Tail - how to help - Page 2 Sunny1
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
-Author Unknown-
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Post  Xtravaschnauza on Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:55 pm

I couldn't agree more with Alberto.

Wouldn't it make more sense to breed better dogs with correct tail set and shape instead of taping the poor puppies' little tails?

I really prefer correct tails even though I have to compromise at times when choosing which dogs to use in breeding. But I would never try to fool others, let alone myself to think that the tail is what it's not. As the tail is inseparable from the spine/skeleton of the dog, the tail set can tell you a lot about the anatomy of the dog's rear. Taping the tail is not just cosmetic, so it's very different from grooming the hair and making the dog seem to be something it's not when you are only looking, not touching it.

Even if the taping did work, what good is it to fool a judge in shows when you can't fool genetics in breeding. I'd go through the trouble of working on the tails in my breeding program rather than taping all the puppies from here to eternity.
Xtravaschnauza
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Post  Xtravaschnauza on Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:00 pm

Oh, which brings me to a question to anyone who is docking or has docked the tails. Since you are/were allowed to dock the tails, do/did breeders keep and use in breeding dogs that have had kinked tails as puppies? Furthermore, I would suppose most dock(ed) the puppies very early on so they might/would not even know that there is something fishy about the tail?
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Post  MsBritmor on Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:11 pm

Xtravaschnauza wrote:Since you are/were allowed to dock the tails, do/did breeders keep and use in breeding dogs that have had kinked tails as puppies? Furthermore, I would suppose most dock(ed) the puppies very early on so they might/would not even know that there is something fishy about the tail?

The answer is YES (for most of us, I would imagine). I have on occasion (not recently, but years ago) had tails that were "naturally" shorter than normal. Certainly not short enough to not dock, but decidedly shorter by maybe half or so. Some of those tails were kinked.

Tail set can be observed as the newborn is nursing on its belly, but (final) tail carriage is not visible before tails are docked as all tails look fairly straight in newborns. (Maybe those who tape should be doing it sooner?) At what age do those tails start to change?

It was an interesting experience to have sent two dogs to Italy (if only briefly in the case of Finn). Almost all of my dogs are related to each other, but I noticed that New's puppies all seemed to have straighter tails, but Finn's offspring seemed to have tails which curved over the backs like handles (which I dislike). If we are ever forced here to no longer dock, I dread to see what we might actually have on our dogs!

At least I am comfortable, for the most part, with my ears (some are a bit larger than I like). A few other breeders here probably won't be as happy when we can no longer crop (and I do see that day coming).

In response to Xtravaschnauza, tail set and tail carriage are two different things. Taping the length of a tail will not correct tail set. My Finn had a perfect topline and tail set... yet his Italian offspring had curved tails... so I can only assume that he would have, also. I can look at photos of those kids and see where they would have been docked, and they would have looked perfectly GREAT here.

_________________
Karen Brittan, Minnesota, USA
Britmor Miniature Schnauzers

Ears and Tail - how to help - Page 2 Sunny1
Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
-Author Unknown-
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Post  Zarina's Design on Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:25 pm

beatrice wrote:
Many breeders do that ... look at the link

http://www.fildale.net/articles.php?article_id=18

Here is with explanations:
http://zarinas.narod.ru/Sticks_ears.html

... why not try whit the tail ?
How you imagine this?
I've heard,some ties,that before people try to do something like this with afgan's tails (they should have a ring on the end of tail)and fixed this,but it ended not so good ussually Wink - it the best way tail just - fall off...and after this already wasn't possible to do something;) afgans was after this without any tail:)

but now,some owners,as i know,do cosmetic operation of tail which as pigs tail.And after this,tail much straighter Very Happy
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Post  Zarina's Design on Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:27 pm

Horoscope wrote:Ears and Tail - how to help - Page 2 DSC03074
About this tape is Beatrice talking about...
Ears and Tail - how to help - Page 2 Galeria14
On this picture you can see how it works (it's not my dog)
And i'm wondering,is it worked?
Zarina's Design
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