Ears and Tail - how to help

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Post  beatrice on Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:18 pm

... very interesting topic ...

... If anyone has experience with sticking ears and tail ?


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Post  MsBritmor on Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am

Sorry, but I do not understand the question.

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Post  Jo on Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:59 pm

Do you mean using glue or tape on a puppys ears so that they fall in the correct way and don't stand up?

I'm not sure what you mean about the tail though
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Post  beatrice on Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:35 pm

... Yes Jo I mean that ...

...also I mean how to stick tail ... I have some experience whit stick tail ...


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Post  Esther on Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:14 pm

I have never seen this done before, does it work?

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Post  beatrice on Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:48 pm

O, Yes .. but you mast be very persistent ...

...on photo my puppy has 5 weeks , and then I put him first stick, he wears that 2 weeks, then I remove that one day ... and then I put him again.

How long he will have stick, depends on puppy.


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Post  Savali on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:19 pm

Very interesting . don't see it before!!!
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Post  Jo on Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:24 pm

I'm sorry, I don't see the reason for doing that to the tail?? I have seen tails vary a lot in how they are carried from the early weeks to several months later, without being tied up like that. Are you trying to make the tail stand up straight? I don't understand why that would work with a tail. Surprised
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Post  beatrice on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:31 am

For me is much better that schnauzer have nice standt up tail, than a tail like s "pig" .

When schnauzer have tail like a "pig", for my taste he "lost" obviousness of back lines.

You understand what I mean?


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Post  dicasandrea on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:24 pm

I am sorry, what means ?
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Post  beatrice on Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:57 pm

I do not know how to explain that you/ they understand me...

When you have schanuzer with a tail on the back like " pig tail " in the ring and look them , he look muck worse than schnauzer whit a stand up tail ... now we talk only about tail, not about other virtues or disabilities of dog.

If you have opportunity to "help" you dog with the tail or ears ... Why not ?
Many breeders do that ... look at the link

http://www.fildale.net/articles.php?article_id=18

... why not try whit the tail ?
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Post  Sandrine on Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:40 pm

I prefer to see how the schnauzer have his tail in reality because it's genetic
so... if the dog had his tail "like a pig" (as you said) and if you help him to have a better tail.. it's good in exhibition but if your dog products a litter we will see how genetical the tail is on the puppies

do you understand what I mean ?
for exemple I prefer to know how the tail of the stud dog is in reallity to be able to choose a female who has a real good tail (without any help) to hope having good tail on the puppies
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Post  Jo on Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:03 pm

I understand that you are trying to make the tail stand up straight instead of curled over the back.

I don't understand how or why putting a bandage around the tail in a splint would have any affect on a tail, when it is made up of lots of bones jointed together. Surely the only way to be sure of having an effect would be to injure the tail first and have more bone growth to fuse the joints together?? silent


I understand that glueing or taping the ears on a puppy will set the correct folds into the ears so they fall correctly after the ear cartilage hardens at maturity but this is a very different thing to the tail. Can you explain the theory behind why it should work on the tail?
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Post  beatrice on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:29 pm

Sandrine you say it is genetic ... yes , but we also try to stick a ears, and may be we succeed in this, but also you don't know when you see a dog on photos if his ears are natural or are glued, and what the ears will have puppies od him. Am I right?

I tried to stick tail couple of time and it helped me. I see that in one very famous schnauzer kennel.
If someone wants to try or not to stick a tail, depends on him.
I said my experience, that many second breeders will not say - as they say these are the "little secrets".

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Post  D'el casa di Vita on Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:57 pm

I look at your photos but I see no result..???
When he was a puppy he had the tail on his back,but my experience is that the can go up when he is going older.
And in showring is the never the same as he is in the garden...
My female(Dyma) has a straight tail(correct) but when she is in the garden she pool her tail flat on the back.
Fenna has a correct tail in the show ring,but out of the ring she pull her tail a little bit next to her back.
So it is very different to know how the tail will be when he is an adult.
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Post  Nina on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:35 pm

Little puppyes bones are so soft that you can shape tail with glue or tape.
They do this lot in foxterriers .
And in some breeds, they do much worse than this:(

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Post  Jo on Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:06 am

Nina wrote:Little puppyes bones are so soft that you can shape tail with glue or tape.
They do this lot in foxterriers .
And in some breeds, they do much worse than this:(

But how would that affect the joints which are what bend the tail?? I would love to see x-rays to prove this does any good.

As Del casa vita said, puppies tails naturally change a lot in those first few months anyway. I have seen tails that were low on the back later on stand more upright and this was without any 'help'
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Post  MsBritmor on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:49 pm

Jo wrote:
But how would that affect the joints which are what bend the tail?? I would love to see x-rays to prove this does any good.

But is it the "joints" which bend the tail or the muscles along those vertebrae?

Happily, we are still allowed to dock here*G*.

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Britmor Miniature Schnauzers

Ears and Tail - how to help Sunny1
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Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
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Post  Jo on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:55 am

The joints are the hinges that allow the tail to bend, putting a bandage around them isn't going to change that.
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Post  Szende on Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am

I am also curios, what is the maximum age when you can fix your puppies ears with tape? How many day do you keep in the dog continuously and do you make pauses between the periods? I can imagine that it is not the best for the ear canal to be kept without "breathing" the skin inside.

About tails: I only can say that in medicine there are some physiotherapy methods that include bandaging ones joints to determine their growing direction : as the bones become larger, they do not have enough space to move freely and they have to remain in their given path, so the joints fusion by themselves and get false ossification regions too. This way one could change everything, even make a brutal things like some people experimented on cats, keeping them in bottles, or children during the 2nd World War. Dough I don't think that sticking up the tail affects in any way the puppy.
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Post  Alberto on Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:32 am

If the intention of tail docking ban is to avoid useless pain to the puppy, tail taping goes exactly in the opposite direction - or maybe even worse, as it doesn't allow the puppy to express itself completely with tail movement in a very important period, and, above all, having the tail taped shouldn't be pleasant for the pup..

Saying "everybody does it" is not a good justification: a serious breeder who is really concerned for the welfare (and not only for the Ch. titles) of his/her dogs should not do this kind of manipulations, especially if they are done merely for aesthetic reasons - and furthermore with controversial results...
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Post  Jo on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:09 pm

Szende wrote:I am also curios, what is the maximum age when you can fix your puppies ears with tape? How many day do you keep in the dog continuously and do you make pauses between the periods? I can imagine that it is not the best for the ear canal to be kept without "breathing" the skin inside.

About tails: I only can say that in medicine there are some physiotherapy methods that include bandaging ones joints to determine their growing direction : as the bones become larger, they do not have enough space to move freely and they have to remain in their given path, so the joints fusion by themselves and get false ossification regions too. This way one could change everything, even make a brutal things like some people experimented on cats, keeping them in bottles, or children during the 2nd World War. Dough I don't think that sticking up the tail affects in any way the puppy.

Yes, i was thinking of he binding of the feet of chinese ladies to keep them small - but that was a very painful thing to do. I would think if you were to tape a puppy tail to have any effect it would be that tight there would be a risk of damaging the blood flow through the tail??

Ear taping/gluing needs to be done before the ear cartilage hardens at puberty. I have heard that terrier exhibitors will 'break' the ear catilage in an older dog so there is a fold that will hold the ear down. I saw a dog at a show this year who looked to have had this done, the ears looked most un-natural.
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Post  beatrice on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:56 pm

Alberto wrote:If the intention of tail docking ban is to avoid useless pain to the puppy, tail taping goes exactly in the opposite direction - or maybe even worse, as it doesn't allow the puppy to express itself completely with tail movement in a very important period, and, above all, having the tail taped shouldn't be pleasant for the pup..

Saying "everybody does it" is not a good justification: a serious breeder who is really concerned for the welfare (and not only for the Ch. titles) of his/her dogs should not do this kind of manipulations, especially if they are done merely for aesthetic reasons - and furthermore with controversial results...

...when I say " everybody does it" .. I thought on ears ... many breeders gluing the ears ( look the link what I post), but no one will say ...
I also say that I seen that in one famous schnauzer kennel in CZ, so if the breeder who breed the schnauzer 20 years to that, and he tells me that it has the effect, why would I not try?


You also say that is "uneless pain" ...
You have forgotten that until a few years we cut the tails and ears ... that is not a painful for the puppy ...and after the cut we glue the ears to stand upright for several months... am I right?

Do you ever see the puppy with the taping tail?
First one, that tape what is on the puppy tail, is the paper tape ... so skin can "breathe" , second - puppy lives and play whit the tape tail as any normal puppy... so don't worry puppy has a opportunity to express itself completely with tail movement as you say in a very important period.

Each breeder has own opinion and experience, if he is split experiences with us, we will decide whether to accept or not his experience.

Smile
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Post  dicasandrea on Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:28 pm

Let me tell you that you are right in everything you write, I have seen breeders remove the cerrotti attacked the ears five minutes before entering the ring. I believe that a puppy can be seen immediately when they have 50 days if it does not lead well in the ears and 20 days with a cerrotto paper will bring affixed to the code I have seen dogs that have cut the nerves of the tail because it does not touch the back and after the fall as dead code and this is bad, but a papir not hurt the dog. Andrea .
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Post  Jo on Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:52 pm

beatrice wrote:


Do you ever see the puppy with the taping tail?
First one, that tape what is on the puppy tail, is the paper tape ... so skin can "breathe" , second - puppy lives and play whit the tape tail as any normal puppy... so don't worry puppy has a opportunity to express itself completely with tail movement as you say in a very important period.

Each breeder has own opinion and experience, if he is split experiences with us, we will decide whether to accept or not his experience.

Smile

If the tail can move as normal, can you tell me how taping it will have any effect?
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